A while back I wrote about my trepidation with Lucid. I have used ubuntu linux ever since my first linux introduction 5 years ago. But recently the changes in Lucid and general pain-in-the-butt install issues have had me very scared to install it. I have not updated any of my machines to Lucid but the other machines that I have updated have been less than spectacular.
So, I finally got around to installing Debian on my home desktop machine. I have been holding off because I am lazy. So far everything had worked, but I had a weekend off and away we ran with it.
First, I did have two little issues. I installed lenny and my update to squeeze crashed and burned. Once I used the Testing installer all was well. Also the installer didn't like hooking to the wifi even though my wireless driver is included in the kernel as the ath9k driver. Aside from that this was the smoothest install I have ever had. Ever. Of all time.
Some things that I really liked. Once I installed the system I was up to date and running full steam ahead. No need to update and wait and download everything. That was already done as part of the install. Usually there are some configuration things and little get it together issues. Once I associated my bluetooth keyboard and mouse I have not had to do anything else. Everything has just fallen into place.
Also, rolling releases are just an awesome idea. I can stay on testing and I will always have an up to date system. Furthermore, the packages in the repositories are not archaic, but actually quiet up-to-date.
All in all, I am very pleased with my Debian install.
Just a few questions. How is the performance as compared to Ubuntu? Does it run well on your Macbook Pro or did you put it on your desktop? If you put it on your laptop not sure if it will run cooler or not sure if it recognizes all the little things on the laptop. Like the keyboard buttons and the sensors.
I have been looking at Mepis recently myself.
So far I have just put it on the desktop. Not sure about running cooler but it runs just as well as ubuntu did. No performance issues at all.
I have not ventured to the brave world of running it on the laptop yet. That is next though. I think I am going to do it.
Okay, your remark about updates being part of the install process seems a little whacked. Either way you install, you have to download the current updates, right? I guess if you figure the reduced time for the net install .iso to download, you get an advantage there.
I agree that a rolling release is a great way to go as long as you can monitor and pick and choose the updates to apply. What I think would be ultimately useful would be to integrate a update/rollback/bug report combo. That way if an update breaks something, you can roll back to the previous state immediately to regain function and then report the bug back to developers. Find me a package manager that can do that, would you?
As far as performace, what would make Debian different from Ubuntu. As far as I could tell from my limited experience with it, it was the same as Ubuntu other than some added flexibility with your update schedule.
The netinstall CD only has enough OS on it to have something that could start at the end. So anything else you want, like a desktop, or office suite, must be downloaded at install time. In the long run not only do you save time, but there is something to be said for the first login not being the wait 3 hours to update everything time.
Debian being faster is just my experience. My wife has reported other slow times that I have had to do some minor things for. I am not blowing the socks off of ubuntu.
As far as rollback, I don’t know of a package manager that will do that for you. In fact, I am not sure if there is a really graceful way to do it. The way that I have done it in the past is that I just go in and manually install the cached version of the package that is broken. The archives are at /var/cache/apt/archives and may be spotty depending on if you have cleared your cache or not. Also in an enterprise situation I have heard of people maintaining their own repo, they test the outside updates, and if all is well they merge them with their local repo and do the updates. This is good for a group of installations, but not for the home user.
I think we both agree that any Debian variant will cream any Windows variant for speed. I think my anxiety about Debian is due to the great Ubuntu support cummunity and what I percieve to ba a lack of a similar community for Debian. Maybe I’m not looking in the right places.
For a roll-back-able installer, you’d just have to keep track of the changes and store the previous information the same way that applications store undo information. I’m not hurting for storage space on most of my machines and I’d be glad to have a pre-modification version of every package stored so I could roll back a change. I don’t think that would be too difficult to code into the package manager.
I think Debian’s rolling update would be an excellent test ground for something like this. You’d have all of the latest development available, you could pick and choose what updates to apply and would have the security of being able to roll back if an update caused some trouble. After my experience with the touchscreen changes in Karmic I see even more value. I don’t know what caused it to break between releases, but if I had a rolling update and a log of changes, I could at least narrow it down to a few packages.
I need to suggest it. Maybe for GSOC or something.
Debian really does have a decent support community. I have found a certain letdown with some aspects of the ubuntu community. For instance, had an issue during server upgrade. Searched and all the results were for old versions, there doesn’t seem to be a lot of current suppot.
In addition, new sites like the unix stackexchange can provide general answers that should have wide application.
Judging by my recent experiences updating Ubuntu I’d say the reason people aren’t posting comments about the recent server version is that they are afraid to update from older ones. I’ve certainly learned my lesson about not fixing what ain’t broke.